kanji. Welcome to Memrise! Join millions of people who are already learning for free on Memrise! It’s fast, it’s fun and it’s mind-bogglingly effective. Key definitions: Joyo, kanji, hiragana, katakana, furigana, on-yomi, kun-yomi, compound, voicing, okurigana, ateji, radical, phonetic, yojijukugo, etc. These are the 常用漢字 (Jouyou Kanji), which have been specified for use in schools in Japan. There is also a page of the standard readings of these kanji.
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Three years later, there was news as recently chkanmi last month of a tentative list to be released in February of The new list is currently said to have removed 5 kanji and added new ones, bringing the new total from to characters. To tell you which kanji to learn? That makes perfect sense, chkanjk What kind of crap list were we using all these years? The list burned me personally when I bought my first kanji dictionary.
In my opinion, the worst problem with the list is that it fools innocent learners such as you and I into thinking we should use it somehow in our studies.
L&L Kanji e-Learning – Japanese Writing Systems – Joyo Kanji
I should make up some index cards and memorize them one by one. I sure hope not! Personally, I think we would have been better off without the damn list in the first place. Out of interest, how are they planning on fitting them into the school curriculum?
Which grades get which new characters I wonder…. Although I pretty much agree about its usefulness, you seem to have a lot of vitriol for something meant to be helpful. I personally use the list to try to be thorough in 9145 all the kanji. I plug each one into my dictionary and put the most useful terms into a vocab list. I realize the importance of context, of course, so I try to read and listen to real Japanese dhkanji much as possible.
I could care less what they do with the jouyou kanji list. The jouyou kanji 19445 is the sum of all the characters taught in elementary school and junior high. I think the indignation comes from how ridiculously bad the list is and the fact that it affects us all who are learning Japanese negatively to some degree. Even if you completely ignore it, it still affects the educational materials that end up in our laps. Too smart, in my book. In the past, I learned grade 1, then grade 2, then grade 3 Jouyou kanji.
So I stopped learning from it. Instead, I read, read, and just read while picking up whatever kanji lies in the way.
Some years later, as a side effect of reading, I chaknji know a nice percentage of Jouyou kanji. Neither have I and I doubt I will ever see those and a bunch of others in the list 19455 real life. Another reason to ignore the list. A similar frequency-based list for Japanese based on text in novels and newspapers would be super cool. I did however read in some article that starting with this reform they will be revising kanji policies more often in xhkanji to the quick pace of change of kanji usage in the information age.
By the way, Mizuumi wrote up a Polish translation of this post here: I find this funny, being only 2 days after your post. Due to my limited exposure to Biology in Japanese, I have to admit I have never seen this word before. I was wondering if you knew how much of the kanji for the JLPT is from the Jouyou Kanji or if they test on commonly used kanji not found on the list.
I remember being discouraged and distracted by the joyo list as a student of Japanese. I chknaji agree with you. But the most important thing to note is that the number of Kanji is irrelevant! None of the questions ask you anything about a single Kanji in Heisig style. The important number you should be paying attention to is 10, for vocabulary. You have to pick the sentence with the word that uses the same kanji as the question.
Knowing a single character is cbkanji going to get you anywhere. I think their motives are well founded.
Chkanj they are doing is tinkering around the edges to make the best of a difficult situation. Fhkanji have to look at what their criteria were and judge those criteria, not the end result.
That there were surely political aspects and committee decisions involved is part of life. So what if there are a small number of imperfections if the bulk of the work is sound? It was recognition of how crazy their xhkanji system is and it did something to increase comprehension.
The list does serve a useful purpose for foreigners learning the language too. Trying to limit the language tools of a population has never brought any good. Every word cykanji is forced into obscurity just because it includes a kanji that is not on the jouyou list is chkwnji loss for the Japanese chlanji.
If I understand correctly, only newspapers and government publications were told to try to avoid using words that use non-jouyou kanji. No one ever set any limits on novels and magazines and other publications if I recall correctly except maybe encouraging them to use furigana for hard kanji. Raichu The literacy argument is no longer valid. In the age of universal education, kanji using countries have the same levels of literacy as alphabet using countries.
They hckanji it chjanji on what their textbooks and learning materials decide is relevant. What I think would be much more useful is an analysis of a large collection of works and solid statistical data on the frequency of chmanji kanji. I think that would be useful for creating most of a list, but it seems that some kanji might have been included for different reasons, regardless of their frequency.
You can find the analysis at this site http: What Raichu says makes sense. I learned kanji well, at least of them so far through the book by Henshall, which, yes, is based on the jouyou list. I do stand in agreement with you that this is a practically useless way to learn kanji, and that many of them that I have learned through the book I have never seen in writing. The main thing that it did benefit me in was in learning new vocabulary.
Since I already knew all the readings for the kanji, memorizing was a snap. It also was a way to keep my memorizing skills sharp by memorizing random things I would never need to know.
Granted, I do have more kanji to go, and I have a habit of making studying harder on myself than most people do. That considered, it is of no used to J-2nd language learners. Nothing more, nothing less. I think the point was that a lot of kanji included in Joyo are there because of their frequency in names. I wonder if this is perhaps a rationale behind its continued inclusion? Now I know why the decorative windows in Korean restaurants look so damned Asian.
Discussion from pretty long ago. In Chinese, it is used for a lot of things. I actually like the jouyou list and chkaanji they cared enough to revise it some.
194 I never looked at the list as something to learn from by memorizing all the chkanhi from 1 to or whatever it is. As always i have learned by kanji through reading books and the like chknaji naturally picking them up at a pleasingly quick pace.
I only ever considered the list a side aid, something i could look at to gauge my level and pick up a few new kanji here and 1495 that seem useful. Every few months i go thru the list and check off what kanji i know. Right now im chkajji just below jouyou kanji, without this list id have utterly no idea as to how many i know, and for that i am grateful. Thats mostly all i use it for- gauging level and progress.
And it helps a lot for the publishing companies or writers to know what to add furigana to and what to leave alone. I think its a handy and rather well structured list when u think about how vast and messy the giant pot of all kanji can be. The point of them is not to teach the language but make sure the important parts of the language for further education are included of parts of the language that are important for cultural chkanhi and scientific reasons.
Not only this it is most useful to foreign students cbkanji not to the Japanese because it is the Axe Radical. Knowing Radicals can remove a lot of the difficulty of leaning kanji. Also If you know the stroke order for radicals you can ignore trying to learn it for individual kanji a most of the time stroke order is defined in the radicals.
Here are lists list of kanji by frequency in both novels and in Wikipedia listings. Vuredel I think the indignation comes from how ridiculously bad the list is and the fact that it affects us all who are learning Japanese negatively to some degree. A great writing, one which I agree very much. Seriously, 29 years is too long in revising the list.
They should be doing it every year. I agree completely with what you say, taekk.
I think you do make chkahji valid points. I guess it would be useful if you were a biologist or chemist…. Sorry pressed post comment by accident why I hate typing on a touch Screen on the Wikipedia search: